Method For Fixing Dog Aggression
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June 24th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
this is encouraging people to flood their dogs by giving them no escape from the situation they don’t like, the dog is muzzeled and on a lead (i know this is for control but there are better ways) so it has no choice just to sit there, but the reason for wanting to attack the other dog will still be there, so the aggression is likely to come back, only a few dogs will be improved this way but most will be made worse.
July 13th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
best to kill the dog and get one that isnt aggressive.
July 23rd, 2010 at 5:53 pm
@thehomefront Ya when things get tough give up eh, kill the dog its much easier to do it the pussy way. Fuck u, people like u should just shut up.
September 1st, 2010 at 2:09 pm
@mischiefmaker1000 I disagree. If the dog is allowed to run, hide or constantly avoid any situation in which it feels nervous, anxious or fearful it will never learn to relax or feel comfortable in that situation. Think of a person scared of spiders; if they run every time they see a spider, they’ll never get over the fear. If they face it, eventually they will learn to relax and accept it.
September 3rd, 2010 at 8:27 pm
@LocalDogRescue if a person is afraid of spiders, it would not be kind to throw them in a room full of spiders, or even place one inches away from them. All learning ceases when we are under stress, reconditioning takes loads of time, and s l o w progression towards that which causes fear with LOTS of positive association – as in very yummy food or play. Happiness releases GOOD endorphins. This dog is waaaay too close to his trigger, enough so that he is hyperventilating.
September 29th, 2010 at 10:38 pm
the pitbull looks TERRIFIED…. his tail was between his legs.. Neither are having a “positive experience” one of the dogs is forcefully being pushed against the aggresor and the other oone is exhasperated becuase he has a dam muzzle on.. IM SORRY TO BE FRANK BUT THIS IS NOT POSITIVE RE-ENFORCEMENT…
November 7th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
This is very old school, indeed. Flooding (overwhelming the dog with something it fears) and punishing the dog for what should be natural responses to fear and stress (growling, barking, snapping) only teaches it to suppress and hide those warning signals. There are better, easier, safer, and more humane ways to deal with aggression. Find a trainer who will work with your dog to desensitize and counter-condition it instead!
December 1st, 2010 at 12:46 pm
@tehrenberg He is not hyperventilating. That he is uncomfortable is part of the “therapy” process the man describes. Flooding is a proven effective tactic for dealing with problems, even in people. A person who is afraid of spiders might be taken by their counsel to a reptile store, so that they are surrounding by spiders in a controlled environment. The same with elevator phobias, eventually someone MUST get on the elevator. Happiness does little to change an inherent problem.
December 1st, 2010 at 12:48 pm
@fijimermaid9 Old school is not bad. Many “modern” approaches are so PC and happy-go-lucky that I see owners with problem dogs working for MONTHS when my approach with a corrective collar can fix the problem in a couple days, max. At what point do you say a method is “old school,” or as you mean it, bad and/or useless, and decide to replace it with methods that may be entirely ineffective for this dog? “Happy” methods often fail when dealing with serious problems like aggression.
December 1st, 2010 at 12:50 pm
@venom94 Positive re-enforcement or not, this is a proven method for dealing with long standing problems, especially in dogs that are neither play or treat oriented. The pitbul is not “terrified,” and a “positive experience” does not always lead to results. Aggression is a serious problem, and you must be serious to address it. The dogs are under control and in a safe situation, that they are uncomfortable is a temporary issue.
December 1st, 2010 at 1:26 pm
@DeadlyChinchilla Old school is about suppressing the warning signs of a disturbed underlying emotional state. So it “works” in that the dog learns not to growl, lunge, etc, but it doesn’t treat the problem, the emotional state. Using “happy” methods, positive reinforcement, DOES change the underlying emotional state, therefore treating the problem and not the symptoms. Someone skilled in PR can safely treat aggression very effectively. I encourage you to learn more about how PR works.
December 1st, 2010 at 5:11 pm
@fijimermaid9 Nonsense. Old school is about direction, not suppression. I think you’ve fallen in the common trap of “my training preference is best,” when in reality “what works for the dogs personality and his environment” is best. You’ve made assumptions about collar training, flooding, etc, because you LIKE other methods better. The reality is that you cannot force “happy” into a dog & PR can be useless with certain dog personalities.
Btw, I’ve been training for 12 years. I know PR well.
December 1st, 2010 at 5:36 pm
@DeadlyChinchilla Direction of what where? And that’s certainly wouldn’t be the opinion of a veterinary behaviorist, who spends 12 years in school just learning about the science of learning and ethology, they would say it is suppressing unwanted behavior. I prefer newer PR methods because they were developed and evaluated using science as being safer and easier for both owners and dogs. I’m not going to pretend that my personal experience trumps science.
December 1st, 2010 at 6:13 pm
@fijimermaid9 “Direction of what where?” That obviously depends on the specific problem. I’m talking about behavioral change, training, not veterinary science. There is a distinction between these things & learning can happen in many ways. If they make the same assumption you have “my way good, their way bad,” its no wonder they claim its suppression.
There is nothing “safer” about allowing aggression to fester for months while trying to force PR to work. Results & failure are both “science.”
December 1st, 2010 at 6:23 pm
@DeadlyChinchilla Behavior isn’t veterinary science? I assume that as a trainer you know that there are many physical maladies that can cause aggression and every aggression case should be first screened by a vet. Behavior is biology, as is learning. Science has given us the tools to understand learning. Now should we not use our understanding of behavior to improve our methods of behavior modification? Counter-conditioning and desensitization have worked for many behaviorists and trainers.
December 1st, 2010 at 7:10 pm
@fijimermaid9 Are you joking? Where did I say biological problems couldn’t cause aggression? Now you assume extremes, or that I’m inept? Of course you determine if a dog is healthy first, you do that before ANY training occurs. I’m talking about the training process specifically, the alteration of negative behaviors. Your ranting about science does not help you make a case against my point or for yours, and I don’t need a lecture on the basics of pre-training.
December 1st, 2010 at 7:15 pm
@fijimermaid9 Where exactly did I say “PR is useless?” I didn’t, & I’ve used it to good results with certain dogs. As I said, training is often about the dogs personality & sometimes PR does NOT work. Science does not tell us to ignore methods that work simply because we like others.
My point is that your discarding of methods you don’t like is counterproductive. The dogs personality is what determines the training style. I hate clicker style, but if its best for the dog, thats what I train.
December 1st, 2010 at 8:26 pm
@DeadlyChinchilla You said “I’m talking about behav. change… not vet. science…There is a distinction…” which indicates that you regard training and vet. science as two different entities. I responded by saying that they are they same and pointing out that maladies often cause aggression. What vet. science says is that punishment-based methods for aggression can make problems worse, not better. That’s not me “ignoring things I don’t like,” that’s following the advice of vet. science.
December 1st, 2010 at 8:33 pm
@DeadlyChinchilla said “PR can be useless with certain dog personalities” so forgive me if I somehow misunderstood you. I have failed to run across a case where aggression couldn’t be resolved with R+ methods, in fact, many cases of R+ resolved aggression were induced by the punishment-based flooding seen in this video. If an R+ method isn’t working, don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are a lot of different R+ methods that might. I don’t use them because I don’t have to!
December 1st, 2010 at 9:18 pm
@fijimermaid9 They do overlap, but there are also distinctions between the fields. And why do you asssume that collar training is about punishment? Its that attitude that keeps people from seeking effective help for problem dogs that resist PR and other PC methods.
I deal with dogs in a specific area that were encouraged to fight at times, and which develop high dog-on-dog aggression. Housepets respond well to PR, these dogs generally don’t. Its possible we just see different kinds of dogs.
December 1st, 2010 at 9:21 pm
@fijimermaid9 Btw, I’d like to point out that I have returned what were highly aggressive dogs to a normal “family life” by using collar training methods. This is about balancing positive AND negative responses, it is NOT about punishing the dogs. If you know how to properly use collars & understand that they are intended to simulate a “mother” dogs neck bite used on puppies, perhaps you wouldn’t consider them so cruel. There is no forcing aggression out by using brutal methods, after all.
December 10th, 2010 at 6:06 pm
@mischiefmaker1000 not true… the main reason for dog agression towards other dogs is fear… so they attack first. If you socialize dogs like this, you’ll find that the dogs behaviour becomes much better. Just needs to be done in a calm environement. The fact that the pit is in a submissive position, is because the “pack leader” is petting him. See some cesar milan videos….
December 23rd, 2010 at 9:21 pm
Wow this is all wrong! Youre forcing both dogs to have a negative experience. That pitbull was be tormented and the other dog was annoyed. Your energy is all wrong the frantic petting of the muzzled dog only made him more nervous.
February 12th, 2011 at 1:46 pm
The background noises are bad and, I really prefer Cesar Millan.
March 17th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
A consortium of 26 animal welfare organisations including the RSPCA, the Australian Veterinary Association, the Kennel Club and the British Veterinary Association, has written an open letter warning that Cesar Millan’s methods will lead to “pain and fear”, and are “not only unacceptable from a welfare perspective, but not necessary for the modification of dog behaviour”.